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FeedWhat game commissioners didn't pass was significant
The big news out of any Pennsylvania Game Commission always centers around measures passed by the board.
Changes to seasons, bag limits, license allocations -- it all grab's everyone's attention.
But what caught my eye during the Game Commission board meeting last month wasn't necessarily what they passed, but what they didn't. Two motions in particular.
The first was made by commissioner David Schreffler, who wanted to change all wildlife management units in the state back to the concurrent buck and doe two-week season. It didn't pass.
The fact that the motion was made tells me there is still interest across the state in the concurrent concept, obviously, and also there are still those who believe the deer herd is either too high or high enough that it can withstand a two-week concurrent season.
And the fact that the motion didn't pass tells me that there are more people who like the split season -- which will stay in place for 11 management units, and it's a concept that we might possibly see expand in the future.
I'm with the second group. Two weeks to hunt antlerless deer is just too long and simply too much pressure on the resource, especially on public lands. The split concept is working fine.
Another motion that failed - by a 4-4 tie, was one made by commissioner Ron Weaner to direct an agency review of mentored youth hunting age.
There isn't one, and with a program that allows children of any age to hunt deer with high-powered rifles (if their parents feel they're ready), I feel there should be a minimum age.
On the surface, enacting a restriction that limits the opportunity that children have to hunt will be a hard sell. But it needs to be done, at least when it involves species such as deer and turkeys where the use of rifles or shotguns with beefy shot are needed in order to increase the odds of a clean kill.
Sure, Weaner's motion may not have passed this time, but the fact that it ended in a deadlock told me at least half the board believes a minimum age may be needed.
One could argue that there isn't any news value in writing about things the board couldn't get done -- i.e. motions that don't pass. But I think such actions provide valuable insight into what the board is thinking and, more importantly, what their constituents are wanting.
What I think the PGC needs to do is get a uniform program in place, and stick with it. Even on public land where I hunt there is not the same pressure there used to be. And it is just more confusing.
Apollodog - A "uniform" program in deer management doesn't exist...there is no single solution that works good everywhere. There are a lot of ways to manage deer properly, but each management system takes a lot into consideration. You cannot manage big woods deer the same way you manage herds in ag lands. You cannot manage sub-urban deer the same way you manage rural deer. You cannot manage public lands deer the same way you manage private land deer. Well...I suppose you can do all of those things, but you cannot expect good results if you do :-).
Tom Venesky- Perhaps you think the split season regulation is fine, but it's not. It has not met any of the objectives it has set forth to do. Hunter satisfaction has not significantly increased despite substantial increases of 30-50% in herd size estimates in the original 4 study units. Additionally, all units where the split season regulation is implemented receive increased doe allocations (which is not a favorable recommendation among hunters) to try to limit herd growth. Yet, despite the increase in allocations, herds continue to increase which means biologists can no longer manage the herd growth in management units with a split season regulation. That's an extremely dangerous scenario because it WILL lead to over-population. Wildlife managers need to be able to limit population growth effectively, and under the split season regulation, they cannot. Also, just because the BOC votes in favor of the split season, their choice does not directly reflect the opinion of the majority of sportsmen. It reflects the choice of the individual board members on the given day of the vote.
The PGC is a broken system. Sportsmen and biologists are pitted against each other in an attempt to win votes from a bunch of people with limited or absolutely no experience with wildlife management. I would rather see biologists working with sportsmen to solve problems, but that will never happen as long as the BOC exists.
"The fact that the motion was made tells me there is still interest across the state in the concurrent concept, obviously, and also there are still those who believe the deer herd is either too high or high enough that it can withstand a two-week concurrent season."
Its not a matter of hunters feeling that way. The STAFF made the suggestion to go back to concurrent seasons and have been for some time now. As most know, they want the deer dead. Not really news there.
"I'm with the second group. Two weeks to hunt antlerless deer is just too long and simply too much pressure on the resource, especially on public lands."
Yes it is. Waaaay too much time.
"I feel there should be a minimum age."
I think a large majority of us do. But when has that ever mattered to pgc in the last 15 years?
"Hunter satisfaction has not significantly increased despite substantial increases of 30-50% in herd size estimates in the original 4 study units."
ha ha ha ha ha! Sorry pal. Never happened. And that in a nut-shell is why hunter satisfaction didnt increase.
Nothing new here. P.g.c is a joke and as long as they remain allowed to be, they will continue to be a joke.
The April meeting will have too many antlerless tags once again, and the beat goes on.
I don't think the length of concurrent season matters. One week, two weeks whats the difference. The number of tags for antler-less either goes up or stays the same. But what about actual harvest numbers. Until there is more accuracy there it is a crap shoot. I hunt public state forest land mostly. I was out all day last day of season. I saw no other hunters, heard zero shots. But we all have to agree if nothing changes, nothing is going to happen. And Bioguy I don't think the biologists, or sportsmen will ever agree as to actual herd size. But something got to give sooner or later. We can't keep spinning our wheels!
"I don't think the length of concurrent season matters. One week, two weeks whats the difference. The number of tags for antler-less either goes up or stays the same."
When its not adjusted approriately, it matters. The goal is more dead deer with the two week concurrent. It didnt fool very many people in my opinion.
"Until there is more accuracy there it is a crap shoot."
I can agree with that to a point.
"I was out all day last day of season. I saw no other hunters, heard zero shots"
Not surprising. Things like that occurred in some areas 20 years ago on "the last day". There were plenty of guys afield throughout the first few days,and each of the saturdays in my area. Putting on drives etc... Just not much shooting.
I have been an outfitter for over 25 years and this year "no dmaps" in my area, made it an enjoyable hunt for 5 days, i never want to see 2 weeks of doe season run together, deer herd has not increased that much in this area of 2G, and the deer we have are very different from the deer of years past, they all have become mostly nocturnal..Hunting pressure is way down and it will never come back, the BOC tries all kinds of ways, but the main factor in getting hunters, is to see more deer..why can't they see that? All the hunters that i know do not want 2 weeks of buck/doe and want lower allocations of doe tags for 2G..Minority are the meat hunters who just want to shoot a doe and don't have any respect for the buck hunters who want to be out and not hear shots all day and have spooked deer in the woods..they need to split 2g and have very low deer allocations in elk,cameron and northern clearfield counties..Yes , the bucks we have are big and they are smart, most pictures we get are from midnight to 5 am..Antler restrictions and lack of hunting pressure is what made the big bucks..Venesky is right and i support his opinion..
Littlegeneral: I hunt southern Potter Co. I disagree with the antler restrictions, for larger racks. At least I think that is what you mean? I think lack of hunting pressure is largest factor. In our area we stated to see and harvest more racked bucks in mid to late 90's. I think it was because we had harvested spiked buck genes out. And clarify for me please, your statement about the deer becoming more nocturnal. If the hunting pressure is down what is causing them to become nocturnal? Predators, or because they are naturally mostly nocturnal. I don't mean this to be the starting point of an argument. Just curious about your ideas on subject.
Sandman, I see that the greenys at Pennfed have their own little website now, and that you are the topic of a conversation. That little whiner greenie 'dutch' was blaming YOU for what happened over on the other site where Dutch and Gals little buddy "bearslayer" ruined the site from within. No one knew he was one of the environmentalists friends imbedded there as an administrator until it was too late. I was there and knew all about it, but I can't post that over on the new board, I would get banned for telling the truth.
That Dutch is a funny little man. You were right about him.